Deep Transitions, Green Transitions, Just Transitions: A #DTdialogue with Johan Schot and Mark Swilling

In this #DTdialogue Johan Schot and Mark Swilling reflect on Professor Swillings well-received book called “The Age of Sustainability: Just Transitions in a Complex World” and relate the findings of the book to the Deep Transitions Framework. 

Professor Swilling’s book, which Johan Schot describes as ‘an eyeopener’, is highly relevant to Deep Transitions research as it adds to it the notion of “Just Transitions”: an emphasis on the fact that a sheer green revolution that doesn’t put equality central will never prosper. Furthermore, Swilling has written this book about the global dynamics of change from a Global South perspective, which remains underrepresented in the Deep Transitions framework, and tells the (South) African story as if it is a global one to provide people with a lens they might not be familiar with. 

In their #DTdialogue, Schot and Swilling also address how to overcome inaction and why the notion of rage and toxic masculinity are crucial in relation to fighting climate change? Professor Swilling’s book attests that we live in historic times as he’s looking at different types of cycles from various points of view and confirms that they all converge at this point in time, deepening the understanding that the world needs to act now – but how can we act?

For the entire interview, click the link below and watch two pioneers of the field discuss the big questions of our times. Would you also like to share your reflections on the Deep Transitions framework and present your own thinking? If so please feel free to comment on all contents presented on or send an email to Jenny Witte to coordinate your own contribution. Also, make sure to join the debate by following @DTransitions2 and using #DTdialogue and on Twitter.

List of References:

Mark Swilling, The Age of Sustainability: Just Transitions in a Complex World, Routledge Publishing, 2020

Johan Schot, ‘The Contested Rise of a Modernist Technology Politics’, in: Thomas J. Misa, Philip Brey and Arie Rip (eds.), Modernity and Technology (Cambridge: MIT Press 2003), 257-278.

Thomas Piketty, Capital in the Twenty-First Century, Harvard University Press 2014

Jessop, The State: Past, Present and Future. Cambridge: Polity Press 2016

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